[00:00:00] Dr Stef: .
[00:00:00] I am Dr. Stephanie Huff. I am an. A full time ER physician, but I'm also, a divorce coach. And I love helping divorcing moms, working moms, physician moms, high achieving moms, all of the stuff figure out what to do when they're going through divorce.
[00:00:16] It can be, A very unfamiliar territory for people. And when you're really used to knowing what to do in your career and in your family life, and then all of a sudden you're thrown into this whole new world of divorce and you don't know what's going on and you don't know what decisions you're supposed to, you don't even know what terminology is.
[00:00:37] So I work as a divorce coach to help you figure out. For yourself, what you want to do in your divorce and have that confidence and the clarity of what's important to you so that you can make your life as best as it can be for you and your family going forward. And I met Cindy, Dr. Cindy Chin.
[00:00:57] We're both certified through the same life coaching school and her focus. This is a lot on money and finances and money mindset. And when I knew this I actually reached out to her at one point and I was like Cindy, I need some help. My, my money mindset has gone awry. I had like an incident last year where my bank account got hacked and it caused a lot of anxiety for me to the point.
[00:01:26] Cause I had to like restart everything. It was, it really threw me for a loop and I got to the point where I couldn't even open my credit card bills, my bank statements. I was just so anxious about it all. And so I reached out to her. I asked for help and asking for help is the quickest way to figuring things out.
[00:01:45] And she certainly did that for me. So she got me back. Course corrected and got me opening up my credit card bills right in front of her. So so I just kind of wanted to have her share with us kind of her insights on money mindsets during divorce, things that she's seen. And it's such a, it's a topic that we don't talk about easily, especially like.
[00:02:10] Even with our friends or our families, it can have a really big stigma on it, and it can be hard to admit. Like for me, like I didn't want to admit that something bad had happened to me or that, you know, my bank kind of being happy. I didn't know what I was doing. And it can be very anxiety producing and fear producing.
[00:02:28] So so Sydney how about you just tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of how you got into money mindset and divorce. So
[00:02:40] Dr Chin: thank you for inviting me on as Stephanie said, my name is Cindy Chin. I am a physician, mom and a life coach. As she mentioned, I do want to preface that all the things we're talking about here.
[00:02:55] I'm not here as a physician or financial expert, but really here as a coach. Right. And just that nothing I am mentioning is meant to be personal advice. So I just want to put out that. Yes. Yes, exactly. And in terms of how I first came into coaching, I think like a lot of, you know, high achieving moms you want.
[00:03:20] Things to be successful and when I saw that maybe my marriage was not headed in the right direction I thought if I could change myself Then I could change the trajectory of my relationship obviously, we're here as Divorced moms, you know how that went but for the best It really was for the best but Also, the, the coaching was something that still stayed with me, how the, it brought to light, maybe all the negative talk that we had and didn't even realize.
[00:04:04] Dr Stef: And
[00:04:04] Dr Chin: one of the things that has stuck with me through my own having had a coach, you know, and coaching now as a coach that my own self talk has gone a lot. More kind to myself and that has been sustained and, you know, like with a lot of things where we've gone through hard things and as high achieving moms, I think we, we know how to go through hard things, but also then saying, okay, now that I'm on the other side.
[00:04:36] What can I do to help others in a way that also speaks to the experience that I've had. Yes. In terms of money and financial literacy, this has been something that I have been interested in for a very long time. I remember my dad having me write the checks to pay the bills when I was little. And, you know, reading financial literacy books.
[00:05:04] After college thinking I need to get myself prepared and ready and so having the experience with the divorce and then also having a long standing interest in money, literacy and financial literacy, I thought, combining the two would be. a good way to use my experience and my knowledge to be helpful in the world in some way.
[00:05:32] And also, you know, to normalize, like you said, the conversation about money. We do have a hard time talking about hard numbers or even the concept of Maybe I'm making a supposedly high income, but some people struggle with making ends meet and saying, okay, well, that might truly be the case, but that doesn't mean it.
[00:06:00] Go, you know, hide it under the rugs or bury your head in the sand or don't
[00:06:05] Dr Stef: open your credit card
[00:06:06] Dr Chin: bills or have that conversation outright because we have the tools in ourselves to be able to make the changes. And like we've talked about before, we can do hard things and because we've been able to do hard things in one area to have conversations about recognizing those strengths.
[00:06:29] And and using them as we move forward in area and other areas where we maybe feel maybe more lacking. That's great.
[00:06:37] Dr Stef: So true. Yeah.
[00:06:39] Dr Chin: Drawn out
[00:06:39] Dr Stef: to your question. That was a great, great answer. And now so on the kind of the divorce side of things, like what, what do you think are some of the common Mindset pitfalls or mindset obstacles that you see with divorce moms, especially as high achieving moms.
[00:07:02] I mean, I know like, like kind of the second you mentioned the word divorce, like the first thing that pops into your head is divorce. Oh, my God, I'm losing everything, you know, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna be destitute and on the, you know, living in a van down by the river. And so that, like, is the first freak out point.
[00:07:23] So what, what are some of the other, what are the common mindset when I
[00:07:29] Dr Chin: hear you say that, right? It's coming from scarcity. Like, am I going to have enough? And then when I think about having enough, then some of the questions I would probe with is, yeah. What does that mean? And are you talking about, like, in your day to day living now?
[00:07:49] Do you mean for retirement? Do you mean for your kids education? And figuring out ways, I know, you know, you in emergency medicine talk about triaging. Like, in the beginning, it might be for discussing how to stabilize. Before you can optimize. Right. And so, right, just what about having enough and then you also mentioned like, you know, living down by the river, but also maybe feeling behind or that you're having to start over because maybe you had to give a big chunk of your.
[00:08:25] Retirement savings to your spouse. And you know, when I think about feeling behind, then the question is on whose timeline are you on? Yeah. You know, many of us are, have more time and even if you feel like maybe you're later in life, that's not, you still have your own capabilities
[00:08:52] Dr Stef: that
[00:08:53] Dr Chin: you can bring to the situation and you can maybe end up problem solving more creatively than you would have thought.
[00:09:01] Had you not just sat down and thought about it?
[00:09:05] Dr Stef: That's interesting you mentioned that about like the timeline kind of thing, because I hadn't really thought about that. And that makes total sense because especially as like physicians or if you went to grad school you spent like a lot of your 20s.
[00:09:21] Not making money. And in fact, you were spending money, right? You were spending money for grad school and for med school or law school or whatever. And so you already feel behind, you know, you know, behind those people, you're comparing yourself to those people who started work right out of college. And then, and then if you go through a big.
[00:09:47] Transition like with divorce and then you're like, Oh, my God, I'm behind again. And so, but you're right. It's like behind. And compared to who you're comparing yourself to other people when really it's your own pathway, like, you can kind of create it. However, you want to see it and you don't have to see it as being behind.
[00:10:09] How else would you I'm like, I'm struggling here. I'm like, how else would I see it as being behind if you're not behind? Because if you think about it, What was the relationship like and what was the emotional toll that it was taking on you that maybe by being divorced that you're actually more able to be focused and maybe more productive in however that means for you.
[00:10:39] Dr Chin: And, you know, maybe in the past then you were having to. Prepare for retirement for two people, you know, if you, especially if you had to give away part of your money, right, then theoretically, some of that, maybe it was from someone who was earning less than you did. It might have been someone equal, but right.
[00:10:56] But if you have to prepare not for them anymore, then there's a different retirement. Maybe metric for deciding what is enough. Yeah. I think a part another part of the scarcity is, you know, in terms of also like the division of assets is being fair, making sure that you're going to get your just share.
[00:11:22] And I think that Is sometimes hard to get that fairness, maybe sometimes it's possible to feel validated, but I, from the experiences I've heard about, and you know, that expecting a legal judgment to give you that validation is pretty empty, and it might not come to be what you expected. To be
[00:11:54] Dr Stef: I give you that sense of kind of emotional justice.
[00:11:57] That's kind of how I talk about, like, there's a legal pathway and the emotional pathway and the more separate you can make it. So, if you can just keep the finances. Less emotionally tied, you know, and work on that emotional side, the mindset side of it separate from the financial figuring out of it all.
[00:12:20] It might benefit you in the long run because I do worry sometimes too about people not feeling like they deserve. Enough and leaving money on the table or as high achieving women, sometimes you want to just like throw money at it too. And that's almost the opposite of scarcity. You're almost like, I just want the problem to go away.
[00:12:43] I want to avoid the conflict. I want to avoid the confrontation. So I'll just give them more money so that they'll. You know, not, well, we'll get it done quicker, but are you being fair? Are you being fair to yourself? Are you, you know, giving yourself the same what would, you know, iteration? Yeah, that's the word consideration, the same consideration as you are the other person.
[00:13:12] And and you do deserve that money just as much as they do. So just if your emotions are kind of in check, if your mind sets in check around it, you might not just be throwing your money at the problem.
[00:13:25] Dr Chin: As you say that, like throwing, sometimes like you, just like sometimes in a marriage, you feel like you give away pieces of yourself.
[00:13:33] And then... You might not have, right? Or whether that's your time or other things in the same way, you can feel like you're being generous. And if it's coming from a place of solid you know, generosity, that's one thing, but doing it from a sense of desperation. I just wanted to get it
[00:13:54] Dr Stef: there. That is desperation.
[00:13:56] Yeah. Yes, just get it over with. I don't want to deal with this anymore. Just here, here's a lot of cash now, you know, and is that really going to serve you in the long run? Probably, probably not
[00:14:08] Dr Chin: in terms of talking about also fairness. Sometimes I also do want to acknowledge that there are probably people for whom the judgments.
[00:14:17] Don't feel fair. Oh, definitely. Yes. And sometimes other people, maybe out of 100 people, 99 percent of the people also say it's not fair. Sometimes that still requires working within the legal avenues available
[00:14:37] Dr Stef: for that, that kind of brings to my mind. Like how it's still. Kind of shocking to people when a, a female says, well, I'm paying child support or I'm paying alimony, you know, and they're just like, what, you're paying him.
[00:14:57] And, yeah, it can seem a little unfamiliar, but it is really hard for people to understand that the child support is a calculation. And. Unfortunately, they don't take a lot of the, the kind of household duties that we take on as moms most of the time, because they do have to find a way to just make it fact based and as fair as possible, because not every situation has the same kind of.
[00:15:33] Mental load distribution and house managerial load distribution. So it is just this fact based thing. And you feel like when it spits out that you as a female making a sizable income are now paying the other parent, whether it's. 50 or 5, 000, you know, it's, it can feel like it's unfair when really it's it's really hard to recognize that it's just a calculation.
[00:16:06] Dr Chin: And part of it is also recognizing the calculation, it might vary state to state, right, but it is based on their potential to make money. It has nothing to do with what assets they have for some people, you know, they might have sizable. Inheritances or passive income from some other thing, but sometimes that doesn't count and that can be very frustrating.
[00:16:32] For people who are working day to day to make those payments. Yeah. So.
[00:16:40] Dr Stef: Yeah, that can be that can definitely be a source of frustration. It's so common. It can be, it's so common. I just want people to know that, like, all of these feelings that we have around these money. Issues during divorce. You're not alone.
[00:16:57] Like, we just don't talk about it enough. I don't, it's not like you get your divorce friends around and definitely like your non divorce friends. They don't really understand it in the same way. So, I just want people to make sure that we get that conversation going so that you have a know, you know, that you can talk about it and it's okay.
[00:17:20] We're probably all thinking the same, the same thing. And the other thing that I was wondering about, too, is like, like for those, those women who maybe weren't participating in the finances because they didn't have the financial literacy like you did, you know, and so they may not know much about the bills, the retirements, the equities, the, you know, things like that.
[00:17:47] And so now all of a sudden it's like, again, a whole new world, a whole unfamiliar terminology. Don't know what anything means. And it's like deer in the headlights. Like what?
[00:18:00] Dr Chin: Right. And so, you know, back to what you were talking about before, you know, about common money conversations during divorce. One we talked about was, you know, scarce coming from scarcity.
[00:18:12] And the second one, I would say I would group this part under getting it right. You know, if you were someone who didn't participate in the past, you know, we, you know, I'm using physician moms, but you know, like with everything else, initially it is information gathering, like our H and P's, you know, figuring out where the ins are, you know, what are the ins?
[00:18:35] What's your income? What are the outs? You know, what are you spending money on and what are things that maybe come in sporadically and having that all laid out in the beginning, I think we want to be people of action and going in and just. Cleaning it all up. Right. But sometimes we need to take a beat and say, okay, I'm going to give myself X amount of time.
[00:19:03] And there's no right answer for what that is. But to say, okay, I'm going to take this amount of time to gather my inputs to figure out where I stand. And, you know, like if you're lost in the wood or something, you know, trying to use that first to say, what are my resources? What are my expenditures? And then decide what a plan is.
[00:19:28] And, you know, when I think about when I think about this part, it's sometimes it's nice to have a big, like, Big picture plan, the 10, 000 foot view saying, okay, now this is what my big picture view is. I'm going to take the step now and go from, from there and making sure that every step I take is the right one.
[00:19:47] But sometimes that feels really heavy and pressure build to say, I have to have like the, you know, like the big picture plan already. And for them. And for others. It doesn't. And instead, it's like, okay, how am I going to get through today, this week, this month, and starting small. And as one builds evidence for themselves of what they are capable of, I think they can then start taking bigger steps.
[00:20:21] So,
[00:20:23] Dr Stef: and it's
[00:20:23] Dr Chin: like.
[00:20:24] Dr Stef: Yeah, I do also think it's kind of like, you know, looking into that junk room closet or whatever, you know, where you like, you don't even want to know, but you do have to take that first step of just opening the door to see what's in there, right? And then, all right, let's take some inventory.
[00:20:43] We don't have to throw anything out. We don't have to get rid of anything, but let's just see. Gather the information, get, and sometimes too, though, I think that's what would be helpful to have somebody like like a money coach or, you know, someone to help you with it to be like, like, Some people might not even know where to start looking, you know, they don't even know what bills to look at to get paid to like or what, where to even look for retirement funds and things like, I mean, like, legit, sometimes I get confused over all my investments.
[00:21:22] So,
[00:21:22] Dr Chin: yeah, looking at your Bank accounts to know what's coming in and out, but also I'm assuming, you know, not everyone, but many people might have auto pay. And maybe it's like then looking at the individual credit cards to see where they are and, you know, and starting to con to consolidate in one place, all of that.
[00:21:41] So you can see it all in right in one place. But like you said, maybe for retirement accounts, one, if you would. Maybe go talk to HR to say, you know, where might those be. And theoretically, you might be getting regular statements for you to be able to look at those as well in terms of investments.
[00:22:07] Dr Stef: How do you help your clients kind of over and were those all of the I had a couple other things to say in terms of that part is one is also, you know, in terms of getting it right.
[00:22:24] Dr Chin: We, we are really wanting, we optimize ourselves for one, one thing, maybe one metric, but then, like, with. The timeline question, you know, I also ask at what cost are you doing that? You know, for some people in the financial independence movement, they're trying to optimize for getting retired as quickly as possible.
[00:22:48] You're talking about like the fire, right? Right. Financial independence, retire early, fire, right? But for some people it's to get to that magic number and retire right away. But then the question with that is, at what cost does that come at? Are you living on rice and beans and that's not what you enjoy?
[00:23:09] Then you know, that is... Something to recognize to say, are you optimizing for the right things for yourself because in, in this moment, it might not be optimizing for future retirement, you know, like five years from now, it might be optimizing for safety for yourself, for your kids. Mm hmm. For survival.
[00:23:34] Right. Yeah. Just for getting
[00:23:35] Dr Stef: through it.
[00:23:37] Dr Chin: Yes. And then I guess the third major theme I was thinking about between scarcity, getting it right, the next one would be wanting your ex to do something different. To be someone different than who they are, and we can't change. So yeah, oh yeah, definitely. Other than ourselves, you know, maybe it's that you're actually done with your divorce, and you want them to pay their alimony or child support on time.
[00:24:08] Or you want them to see that what you want for the kid, your child, is the appropriate thing. Or, you know. But we can't change them. And I think Right, like it comes to the money more with like the payments or maybe how you want to spend the money and how whether they agree or they don't agree with how you want to do it.
[00:24:33] And depending on if those activities have to happen on their time as well. You know, that might also impact how it for your own money for example if you want to do an activity, your ex does not. Right. Then maybe then you end up having to foot the whole bill right in wishing and like saying it covering
[00:25:03] Dr Stef: that anger cost.
[00:25:09] Dr Chin: So I think those would be like my major themes, but also saying. You know, we're not perfect. No, you know, and I talked to this about with my patients as well, right, that I would, we're not perfect. I'm not striving for perfection. And if we start off small, and we make small mistakes, that is. I think more comfortable than trying to make big changes and making larger mistakes that are maybe harder to recover from.
[00:25:38] So that's why, you know, just taking however, whatever moments you need to get your own bearings.
[00:25:48] Dr Stef: And is that how you typically work? With your, your clients, do you start out smaller? Just as it kind of depends, like,
[00:25:57] Dr Chin: I take it one on one, depending on the person. Right. We talk a lot about motivational interviewing and meeting people where they are, and I think the same applies here because no two people are the same and things that might, they might have common themes, but how they see it.
[00:26:17] Is very different and strategy that might work for one person doesn't work for another. And so the conversations, you know, as a coach, I would have would be first, you know, getting to know the person what's important to them and helping them recognize the strengths like we talked about earlier that they do have.
[00:26:36] And then making progress from there. And, you know, seeing that the time they're devoting, it doesn't, you know, it can be a coach, but it could be someone like, like a trusted friend or someone that they have and saying, you know what I'm meeting. For this amount of time that I am setting aside and committing to myself, I think it is a show to yourself that you are wanting to make changes and you're willing to put in the time and the resources.
[00:27:09] For it, right? And, you know, and having someone outside, like, I don't like for even though, you know, we have chatted a few times. I don't know what your life should look like. Right. And so, and I'm not there to tell you, you know what, this is the perfect way to solve all your money problems. Right? Instead, it's there to ask questions, to say, is that what you want to do?
[00:27:36] If you take this path, what does that mean for you? Are there any alternatives that you see? And what are the pros and cons, potentially, of those? Or to unpack, you know, a really, maybe a knotted situation for, for someone and saying, okay, what is the situation? Where are the knots that you see? Helping to unravel that.
[00:28:00] So, like I said, there's not a, a specific way, I think it's just more of, I think of coaching as sort of the container for people to have these conversations in a way that's non judgmental and also recognizing people and the strengths that they have. You know, I think one of the things I think about when in terms of both managing money and going through divorce is that we're all doing the best we can
[00:28:32] Dr Stef: with
[00:28:33] Dr Chin: the resources we have on hand.
[00:28:35] And. I think having gone through divorce, it helped me recognize that and appreciate that even more, not just in the divorced, you know, but also like when I think about my patients and how, maybe what it takes for families to even come to their appointments, you offer where, you know, Or to say, you know what?
[00:29:02] You have worked so hard to be able to put that food on the table for your kids, or to be able to have people watch your kids while you're at work. And just having just a greater appreciation for that. But I think, yeah, you know, like in terms of a go to thought I have for myself, which I put on my own phone sometimes, is, you know, like, I'm doing the
[00:29:25] Dr Stef: best I can.
[00:29:27] Yep. And having that self awareness to be able to talk to yourself a little kinder, like you mentioned in the beginning is, is the big part of allowing yourself to try and maybe not get it right the first time, but to just try it, see if you can learn more, gather more and who knows? Who knows what might happen.
[00:29:52] Right. So that, that is great. So what, do you have like a favorite book or research or, or not resource, sorry, like a famous. What's the book that you recommend the most? I
[00:30:10] Dr Chin: don't have a specific book. I do, I have recommended things like the white coat investor book for people, you know, because when I talked to my trainees, that's, you know, one of the first books that came out, I know he has several other books that have come out, but you know, that.
[00:30:29] Is I think a reasonable place to start. And you know, that's more for physicians, I think, but I really believe, you know about find finding free. There are so many free resources available and I really like a couple financially oriented podcasts. The first one I like is choose a five or choose financial independence.
[00:30:56] It was originally started by a pharmacist and a former CPA turned you know, entrepreneur and they, and it's not geared toward any specific population of people. It doesn't have a specific niche. It's just more about financial independence and, you know, like with atomic habits, figuring out ways to be 1 percent better.
[00:31:19] And they have like a intro. episode, which is episode 100. They also have a free financial literacy course and they actually have a financial literacy curriculum that's free for kids. So that's awesome. So that one I've really enjoyed. Another one I do, I like, I like his podcast. I've read his book as well, several times, is Ramit Sethi and his I Will Teach You to Be Rich.
[00:31:50] And the reason I like his podcast is because these are real people talking with real numbers. About their financial life, and I don't think it's a Netflix guy or no, he wasn't. He is the Netflix guy, but he has an actual podcast. I like to ask more than I liked his his Netflix. Do they get more than the numbers?
[00:32:11] Yes, people go through their actual numbers and he has resources, but one of the concepts that he has that I really like are the money dials that there are, you know, there are certain dials we have categories of things, and we can't be at a 10 out of 10 for every one of them, just like we don't have the energy for.
[00:32:34] For every category but just say what is what are the ones that I'm willing to spend more money on
[00:32:41] Dr Stef: And
[00:32:41] Dr Chin: which ones are maybe less important to me, you know, maybe it's that you are willing to spend more on healthy foods Right and that might cost more You know, i'm willing to spend less on my car and let it you know be older and so To say to recognize that for yourself to say you know what, or it might be, you know, I really appreciate spending time with my friends and family, and I want to put in the time to.
[00:33:12] And, you know, happen, and maybe it's less on something else like my clothes could I could. Care less about so, but so he talks about money dials and I, I like
[00:33:25] Dr Stef: that. I never heard of that, that before the money dials. I'll have to check out his podcast. Cause I did enjoy the Netflix series. So that'd be good.
[00:33:34] Now you shared with us what's on your phone. For that quote, do you have a money mantra?
[00:33:40] Dr Chin: I think, I think it's, it's still like doing the best we can. But I think another thing I think about with related to money and I guess it applies actually in multiple areas, you know, because some people frustrated with certain aspects of their life, but there is a Physician blogger called the happy philosopher, and he had a blog post.
[00:34:04] It's several years old, but it's something that has stuck with me. And so so I feel like it is definitely like a lesson that I have taken to heart. And it, the post is Alligators and kittens and the, how is that right? Is how we think our, when our life is hard, we think. Adding kittens, you know, cute, cuddly things, or, you know, the latest clothes, the latest gadget, whatever that that will make our life.
[00:34:35] Better, but maybe actually what would make our life better would be to take out some of the alligators.
[00:34:43] Dr Stef: This
[00:34:44] Dr Chin: is true.
[00:34:45] Dr Stef: And then add the kittens. Maybe. Maybe
[00:34:49] Dr Chin: you don't need as many kittens if you have fewer alligators. This is true. And for some people, you know, for divorce, you know, especially messy divorces, maybe.
[00:35:03] The marriage was an alligator that you are now getting rid of. And if we look at it as something positive, you know, then, then maybe it might help with, with reframing and also moving forward.
[00:35:21] Dr Stef: Well, now that you mentioned reframing, isn't that kind of how you got the name for your coaching business?
[00:35:28] Alternate lens. Isn't that right? Alternate
[00:35:30] Dr Chin: lens. Yes. Right. To be able to see things differently, you know, a part of what came to me is like when I used to have in my budget for my divorce costs, I called it divorce and it made me feel to me. I mean, granted, these are my own thoughts. It's nothing right.
[00:35:48] The word divorce is just a neutral thing, but it made me feel like a failure or the thought I had was that I was a failure. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. Whereas. I switched it and I called it freedom, like my freedom fund. I mean, we've, it was the same, I'm like, I was going to pay it regardless, but it made me feel more happy.
[00:36:12] Yes.
[00:36:13] Dr Stef: Like, yeah, just. You're investing in your future, not like draining your, your pockets. Yes. I love that. Freedom fund. That's awesome. Yeah. Because it is, you can see it as an investment, not just a complete like waste of money that you're just throwing into the wind. You are using this money to be free from your marriage so that you can move forward and create something totally new and, and there's plenty of money to be, Waiting to be earned and brought in.
[00:36:54] I love it. All right. Well, if you had just one piece of advice to give to a working mom, high achieving mom, physician mom about to go through a divorce. Do you have like a piece of advice? What would that be?
[00:37:13] Dr Chin: That this might be hard, but you have gone through hard things before and you can thrive within it and be on the other side.
[00:37:25] It doesn't always feel easy at the, at the moment. Not going to lie about that because it's true. It can feel hard, but you can get to the other side. Love it. So true. And then I think you can be stronger for it.
[00:37:45] Dr Stef: I totally agree. I say that going through the divorce has made me a better physician, and I think it has also made me a better mom, to be honest, too.
[00:37:58] You know, I don't know if I would have the same appreciation for the time I spend with my kids, and I wouldn't have maybe the same focus. On my career as I would if I wasn't divorced and had to reframe everything in a different way and see it from a different angle. So I am actually grateful for my divorce for many things.
[00:38:24] And, and I do think it can actually give you the opportunity, like you said, to make more money. Now you're not saving for two people in retirement, you're saving for one and maybe now you can work more hours when you don't have your kids and less hours when you do, or maybe you can like structure it differently.
[00:38:42] And I, you know, actually end up. Working for you both financially and personally and mentally. And I think it does take just a moment of taking a breath, not letting the fear and the scarcity and all of the overwhelming intense feelings like right in the beginning, not letting them take over, just take a moment, breathe, gather some information and you'll, you'll get through it.
[00:39:14] You'll get through it. You'll figure it and asking for help is going to be the quickest way to figuring things out to having someone who's already been through it and and knows what you know what to look for can be really helpful too. So I think that's great. All right. Let's see if if anyone has any questions we can answer any questions here.
[00:39:37] And if you put them in like the Q& A down there, but do you have anything else you'd like to add Cindy or? Any other words of wisdom? Nuggets of gold?
[00:39:49] Dr Chin: Not specifically, though I do appreciate the chance to talk to you and have fun conversations because you know, and I guess part of me feels that if we As physicians feel in control of our money, whether we're divorced moms or not, you know, that maybe we can also fight burnout and also work more joyfully.
[00:40:16] And it's not just obviously. About going through a divorce, but just how just having that knowledge can maybe help you with other parts of your life to give you a buffer. Oh,
[00:40:32] Dr Stef: definitely. I think it can be, again, it's one of those things where it's like, I know for me, I, I'm still not super financially literate.
[00:40:44] I'm working on it, but it's not one of my favorite things. But it's also like, is it not one of my favorite things because I'm not good at it? And so then I don't do it because I'm not good at it. So then I don't learn about it. So then I don't like it. And it just is this like vicious circle of I don't wanna, right?
[00:41:06] So if I could somehow like stop that cycle, maybe if I did learn more about it, maybe then I would start to like it and I would be good at it. And then, you know, I would. Spin in a different direction.
[00:41:25] Dr Chin: You know, it doesn't have to be something you love, right? I think about, like, toothbrushing. Yeah. Many people, I don't think, love toothbrushing.
[00:41:35] But you do it anyway. And, right? To maintain a certain amount of dental health. It can be good sometimes. When you really need
[00:41:47] it. Right? It doesn't have to be everyone's, like, Cup of tea, but you know, it's like Daily maintenance of things, you know, I don't know that everyone loves to exercise, but we recognize the benefits of exercising. So
[00:42:03] Dr Stef: we also don't know until you try, you know, like legit. I said, I would never be an ER doctor.
[00:42:10] And if I had to spend a month in the ER, it'll be the worst of my entire life. And that was coming from a place of total fear and lack of knowledge. I had no experience in the ER what forever, but obviously. It was going to be the worst thing and here I am 20 years later, as in the, you know, in the ER for 20 years.
[00:42:30] I just didn't know. I didn't know anything about it. So if you don't even try it, who knows, maybe you do end up really enjoying it and not even. You wouldn't even have had that experience if you didn't just give it a try. So, starting some financial literacy, starting to look into things just not being afraid of the numbers.
[00:42:52] The numbers will mean what you make it mean, too. It's almost like stepping on the scale, right? Like you make it mean, What you want it to mean and one number to one person might be a lot and to another person might be nothing at all, you know, so I think sometimes right
[00:43:11] Dr Chin: if sometimes we aren't willing to do things for ourselves that we're willing to do for our kids.
[00:43:17] And, you know, and maybe it's having the conversation with your kids, you know, and Getting them to learn. Oh, yeah, six from early on and that might help Spur people to, to get to, to dip their toe in. Yeah. You know, and, and if it's hard and your kids see that it's hard for you, what an amazing lesson also for them to say, you know what, this is sometimes hard even for grownups.
[00:43:50] And they get frustrated too. And yet they are also role modeling. How I can, you know, address when I feel frustrated.
[00:44:00] Dr Stef: Huge. Yeah, definitely. But like being the example of what is possible. Cause I know like after I worked with you we kind of set up my budget. I think I told you about this, but I said like, okay, we're going to, I just kind of threw it out to the kids.
[00:44:16] I was like, Hey guys, we're going to have some changes round here. And I said, let's do like 50 a week for eating out. And, and I just kind of said it off the cuff and my daughter's like, okay is that a 50 per person like, or does that include tax? Can we roll it over to, I mean, she had so many questions that I was not prepared for, but I loved how her mind just immediate was like, oh, let's do this.
[00:44:44] We're on. And she. I mean, I just loved it. We would go out and she'd be like, let me see the receipt. How much was it? And she's adding it up and I would not have even had a clue that she would have reacted that way if I just, you know, if I hadn't started the conversation. So I think that's a great point, like starting to get your kids involved.
[00:45:06] And that's a great thing to do. Even, you know, when you're a divorced mom, you'd be like, hey. Can you guys help me out here? Like, let's, let's look at where we can, you know, this is why we're doing this. And this is why we're doing that. And and kind of go on the journey with you in a way that's. It's not too, like, devastatingly difficult.
[00:45:27] Like, just like, like, help me out a little. Let's learn. Let's learn together. If they have a say in the problem solving. Oh, yeah. You know, it feels like they've got skin in the game. Yes. That you are seeing and hearing them. And I think that goes to many things that if we can see and hear our kids, but also our fears right because if we bury our head in the sand talking about money or other parts that that is going to just get bigger and bigger but if you can face it and say okay what are you trying to tell me that it might go a long way to To avoiding a bigger problem later.
[00:46:09] Dr Chin: I agree. I agree. Well,
[00:46:10] Dr Stef: well, this has been a lovely conversation. I really enjoyed it. Just like everything else there. Yeah. Now, if if someone wanted to get in touch with you. And what, what sort of, do you just do one on one coaching?
[00:46:25] Dr Chin: Yes. And on my website, I've also said I would only stick with one on one coaching because one, I like the intimacy of it.
[00:46:33] I know that there are benefits definitely of coaching, but what drew me to coaching was being able to have the one on one coach. And so I just wanted to offer that for others as well. Great. So, so that and so, like I said, my email would be hello at alternate lens dot com and the website is alternate lens dot com
[00:46:58] Dr Stef: lovely and that will be included.
[00:47:01] And the email with the replay that'll get sent out tomorrow so you can reach her there. So awesome. Well, Cindy, thank you. It was lovely to see you. I really had fun. It was, it was a great conversation. So I, I will talk to you soon. I'll need some coaching. My money mindset still, it's, it's, it never goes away.
[00:47:26] Well, never stops. All right. Take care. Bye.
